Poll: What kind of Nearshore Fisherperson are you?

July 17, 2014 By Scott 2 Comments

The page views on this blog increased almost 10 fold since the summer fishing season has arrived. Judging from the search criteria that brought folks to this blog, a lot of you are interested in oama fishing.

I’m very curious to know what type of fishing you do. If you’re using oama for bait, have you been successful this season? I haven’t been. So far it seems that only kaku are interested in chopping my bait up and cutting my line.

Please participate in this poll. There’s no way to track you and you won’t be spammed. I’m hoping to get a feel for who reads my blog and how the summer fishing is going.

If you have any specific comments to provide, please get in touch with me through the Contact page. Thanks!

Update: Poll closed after a month. Thanks for participating! For poll results, click here.

Early oama, late papio?

July 7, 2014 By Scott Leave a Comment

oamas in captivity

Oama season traditionally peaks in August so the fact that they’ve been seen at the usual spots appears to indicate an early start. From my informal poll of the shore fishermen I met recently, it’s been a solid start of the season but the papio haven’t followed them in yet. The results of 3 surfboard trolling outings support that: a few body-less oama returned, a clean cut leader and a sub-legal omilu.

We can only hope the papio realize the oama are already in. In the meantime I have to perform daily water changes to keep my oama alive and healthy. And refrain from naming them.

How good is your “oama eye”?

June 24, 2014 By Scott 7 Comments

It’s often pretty difficult to locate the traveling school of oama. With glare, wind chop and a lot of ground to search, it takes a trained eye to spot the oama schools.

Can you see the small school in this picture?

Can you see the oama?

Polarized sunglasses cut a lot of the glare. This is a simulation of how it would look with polarized sunglasses. I zoomed in on the school to highlight it. They’re traveling toward the upper left hand corner of the photo.

Ah, there’s the oama!

The first third of the battle is finding the oama. Then you have to catch them, and then keep them alive long enough to use them properly as bait. Here’s some tips on how to keep them alive and healthy.

Gearing up for the summer’s halalu and oama runs

June 18, 2014 By Scott 25 Comments

oama gear

Fishermen are discreetly checking their favorite spots to see if the halalu and oama have made their early arrival. When these early summer fish are found, don’t expect to hear about it unless you have a really connected friend.

In the meantime, you can gear up with proper footwear, straight poles, dunking gear, tackle and live bait buckets.

I’ve never fished for halalu but have targeted the oama over the years. Oama show up in same sandy areas year after year. Early in the season the school is small and flighty so the early season fisherman will try to target them without tipping off his oama fishing competition.

It’s importantly to wear a hat and polarized sunglasses to scan the sandy bottom, and to tread very lightly. Ask the tackle shops to recommend the proper hook, line and split shot, as well as pointing you to the fiberglass straight poles. If you can find the wrap around the waist net, that would make it very easy to drop your oama into that net to unhook it. Otherwise a small red landing net would suffice.

The yellow Frabill Flow Troll live bait bucket with spring loaded door will make it much easier to add an oama. I have the non-spring loaded types also and I’ve lost a lot of oama opening or shutting the door’s latch. I’ve seen the Frabill Flow Troll at Roy’s Fishing Supply, McCully Bike and even Target at times. Keep your precious oama alive on the way home with a Promar live bait aerator or similar bait pump. McCully Bike sells the Promar pump for about $10.

Hooking the nibbling oama is an art. I sucked at it because I was trying to feel the bite and then set the hook, but the oama really are feeling the bait with their whiskers before deciding to nibble on it. The recommended method is to use a short pole and short length of 1 – 2lb test line. Attach a hook to the end of the line, with a split shot about 4 inches up. Lower your bait to the bottom. When you feel your split shot hit bottom, raise it up so your bait is slightly off the bottom. If you see oama approach your bait, wait a few seconds and lift your rod tip in a motion up and away from your body, almost as if you were skimming the water with your rod tip. If you don’t hook the oama while it’s eating your bait, you may at least hook it while its whiskers are over the bait. Watch an experienced fisherperson hook oama and emulate. Hook sets are free so swing away.

Here’s some info on keeping your oama alive as long as possible.

Kinda flat on the Flats

May 29, 2014 By Scott 1 Comment

The plan was to have the visiting fishermen, Justin and Pete, feel the raw power of an oio racing across the flats. Unfortunately the oio had other plans.

There were a number of waders, dunkers and bait casters targeting the oio, and some of them got their intended quarry but we just got a few random reef fish.

Highlights were an omilu on Justin’s first cast, and a Hawaiian knifefish for me, which is some kind of small nabeta. Justin had another story of the one that got away; this time I wasn’t around to witness because I was off fishing unproductive water.

We fished a new area of the flats and I wasn’t able to find the productive channels the oio frequent.

Lesson learned: Fish the flats on a rising tide before the inside section heats up from the morning sun. Once that happens, fish the deeper channels closer to the break.

some sort of nabeta?

Unscented Lures: Kastmaster, the flashy casting lure

April 30, 2014 By Scott 10 Comments

modified kastmasters

Kastmasters are an old school favorite in Hawaii. As the name implies, the lure’s streamlined profile casts really well, even into the wind. Its shiny, machined surface is beveled to cause it to flash as it swims enticingly. If you pause and let it fall, it flutters to the bottom like a dying fish.

The stock treble hook it comes with is notoriously weak and prone to snagging the reef so a suggested modification would be to replace that hook with a single “siwash” hook. I use Gamakatsu “open eye” siwash hooks that have an eye that can be slipped over a split ring and then crimped tight. I’ve heard that the kastmaster sinks with the printed side up so I position the siwash hook such that the point is facing up not down. In theory this minimizes snags.

If you want to add further modifications, you can purchase the kastmaster with the trailer attachment, and add a stick on eye to the front of the lure. I can’t tell you if those mods increase my catch rate but they don’t seem to hurt.

I get way more bites dragging cut bait than on the kastmaster but if something hits the kastmaster usually it’s a good one. I try to start with the kastmaster and if I do get a hit on the kastmaster often that’ll be the only hit in that area until I switch to bait.

moana on 3/8oz gold kastmaster

Use the kastmaster when you’re fishing near the water’s surface, to impart the right action. If you’re fishing too shallow, say shallower than 4 feet of water, you may end up getting snagged a lot. The blue/silver version attracts papio, kaku and awa awa, and the gold and rainbow trout version attracts moana and other reef fish. Use the smallest size you can cast since the prey you’re imitating is often pretty small. The 3/8 oz size will get more hits than the 1/2 oz size, and anything larger will lessen the number of hits but may attract a monster fish.

Click here to see how effective the gold kastmaster was on the He’eia Fishpond kaku.

For a summary of other bait and lures you could use, click here.

Live bait: Sand turtles – not really a turtle

April 28, 2014 By Scott 11 Comments

sand turtles

Sand turtles are called sand crabs or sand fleas on the Mainland. Reptile lovers can rest easy, they are a crustacean that burrow in the sand near the water’s edge. They are often caught on sloping beaches with fine sand, but are even present on grainy, pebbly beaches as those in the picture were.

They seem to always be present until you try to catch them. My theory is that they don’t like the heat of day, so early in the morning or in the late afternoon, on a low tide, may be best.

The most comprehensive writeup regarding capture, preservation and use as bait refers to the Florida version but all that’s mentioned applies to our sand turtles too. Click here for that guide.

ika tied to a beach vine

Traditionally fisherpeople in HI would use string or cord they found on the beach and attach some kind of bait on one end, and tie the other end to a stick. If left to be pushed around with the incoming water, eventually a swarm of sand turtles could be dug up nearby. A more streamlined version is to simply zip tie the bait to a stick and stake the stick in the water, with the bait buried. A piece of ika, chosen for its strong scent and toughness, is a popular bait. Click here for an even easier way to catch sand turtles.

The sand turtles molt like other crabs and shrimp, and the fish can tell the soft shell versions from the regular versions. Fish also love the females that are carrying orange eggs. If you’re lucky enough to have either soft shell or egg laden sand turtles, use those first.

On the mainland, the fish that eat the sand turtles just gulp them down so the hook point can run through the top of the shell, but here on our reefs we have a lot of nibblers that will try to suck out the good stuff and leave you with an empty shell.

The best way to hook the sand turtle is to turn it over and place the point of the hook through the “digger” or slender triangular piece that starts from the turtle’s back and points forward. That will prevent the turtle from burying itself. Drive the point through the top of the shell and then bring it back through the top so the point of the hook ends up facing downward.

You can dunk the sand turtle or slow drag it along a sandy bottom. Moi, oio, goat fish and papio love them, as well as the other reef denizens you may not want to catch.

For a summary of other bait and lures you could use, click here.

Live bait: Oama, long live the King!

April 14, 2014 By Scott 3 Comments

raising oama

If you google for “oama”, eventually you will come across hits for our current President (this is written in 2014). But if you fish in HI, you would know that oama are juvenile “weke” or goatfish that arrive in the shallow sandy areas between early July and late September to flee their many predators. You’ll also know that fishing with oama during this “season” is the best time of the year to fish for papio (jack crevalle). Some people only fish during this period and pack their gear away the rest of the year.

There is much information on what beaches to find them and how to catch them. Sometimes the catching is easy, sometimes it’s really hard. The best way to catch them is to have an experienced person show you how it’s done.

Every oama you catch can potentially be converted into a papio. While it’s an art to catching the oama, it’s a science to keep them alive long enough to use them for bait. Here’s what I learned the hard way, at the expense of the poor oama.

Oama are a schooling fish that are comforted by the company of their friends. It’s ok to keep quite a few of them together.
It’s not enough to keep them in a bucket of salt water with an aerator going. Heat and their own ammonia kills them. Keep them in an aerated, cool place, and change their water daily. A large cooler in the shade will do, and to increase their chances of survival you can use an ammonia detoxifying agent like Ammo Lock to neutralize the bad chemicals in their water. You can buy Ammo Lock in a pet fish store. Keep their holding pen dark and the oama will be much less stressed.
A dying oama seems to give off strong toxins that kill the others. Remove dying or dead fish immediately and dose with the Ammo Lock.
If you have the luxury of a tank with filtration, you can actually keep oama alive for a long time. Just don’t get too attached to the cuddly, whiskered cuties. I did and couldn’t put a hook through them so I had to wait for them to die before I used them!
If you plan to use the oama for bait within a week you don’t have to worry about feeding them but if you really want to you can get some frozen Mysis shrimp from the pet store. Start with very little because they won’t be feeding well initially. If they don’t eat the shrimp you’ll have to remove them because it will cloud the water. Some people use brine shrimp but I haven’t had good luck with that. Just feed what you can see them completely eat in a minute or so.
Oama are fairly fragile and most of the initial ones will die. After administering last rites, if you want to preserve them for future bait you can do the following. Lay them out, salt their bodies with rock salt, and vacuum seal them in a bag if that’s available. That’s the best way to freeze them.

I trolled my frozen, salted oamasickles from my surfboard last year and they worked almost as well as live oama. They did spin as I pulled them through the water so I needed to connect my fluorocarbon leader to my main line with a ball bearing swivel, replacing the standard ball swivel.

For other bait and lure options please click here.

Poll closed – The Gulp lure eating offender is revealed

April 2, 2014 By Scott Leave a Comment

The people have voted, and were correct. The fish responsible for destroying my Gulp lures were the humuhumunukunukuāpua’as. They couldn’t get their relatively small mouth around the large weedless hook I was using so they whittled down the back of the lures like a pack of piranhas.

I’m not sure why there were so many of them at this one spot but needless to say, I moved to another spot to fish!

Thanks for participating in our first poll.

What’s the best bait or lure to use for nearshore fishing in Hawaii?

April 2, 2014 By Scott 28 Comments

modified kastmasters

I was a lure fishing purist. I even dabbled with tying flies and customizing Kastmaster lures. It seemed more sporting to fool a fish to bite something man-made, and lures were a lot easier to acquire than bait. But I got skunked way too many times and reluctantly tried dead bait, and then live bait. Lure fishing in HI has its place but bait, particularly live bait, is KING.

Bait and lures can be broken down into the following categories:

Live bait – oama (juvenile goatfish), halalu (juvenile big eyed scad mackeral), nehu (Hawaiian anchovy), o’pae (shrimp), sand turtles (mole crabs), etc
Dead/cut bait – oama, tako (octopus), ika (squid), “California” shrimp, aku belly, etc
Scented lures – Berkley Gulp, Berkley Powerbait, etc
Unscented lures – plastic grubs/strips, flies, feather jigs, metal spoons, metal jigs, swimming plugs, etc

There’s too much detail to cover in one post so I’ll summarize the categories and cover them in future posts.

Live Bait

The best live bait for the larger nearshore fish, by far, is live oama. Oama school up in the shallow, sandy areas in the late summer because the predator fish are hunting them mercilessly. Halalu season overlaps with oama season, so the summer and early fall is the best period to nearshore fish. If you can catch nehu, `opae and sand turtles and fish them near where you caught them you’ll have much better odds than using dead bait or lures.

Click here to read about the basics of oama fishing.

Click here to read about keeping your oama alive as long as possible.

Click here to read about catching sand turtles.

Click here to read about catching regular `opae.

Click here to read about catching the larger `opae lolo.

Dead Bait

papio caught with frozen oama

Animals release chemicals when they die and thus, smell differently than alive. Freezing bait changes their chemical makeup further. So a defrosted bait definitely smells different to a fish than a live bait. If properly handled and frozen, oama and tako are effective defrosted bait but are much better used freshly dead. Aku belly is much better used fresh. Ika and shrimp should be cut up in their proper presentation size, salted and then frozen to prevent them from getting too mushy.

Scented Lures

There are a number of lures that are impregnated with scent to smell like the bait they are imitating. Berkley’s Gulp lures are the best known and come in many shapes. I’ve tried them with moderate results. Fish in HI that are attracted by smell, like humus, hinaleas, rock fish seem to like these lures. Others may have had better results but the best fish I’ve caught with them were moana. Because they are actually made from a fish food substance, the lure action isn’t as pliable as the better soft plastics.

Unscented Lures

Bait fish and crustaceans in Hawaii are very quick moving because the warm water keeps their metabolism up. Fast moving, jerky lures often do well imitating these creatures. The very popular plastic bubble pulling a plastic strip/grub or fly is very effective when popped erratically because the popping makes the predators think they’re missing out on a feeding frenzy. Metal spoons like Kastmasters and Krocadiles, cast well and can be jigged deep. The new metal jigs with assist hooks can be cast out and retrieved in deeper water, or fished vertically from a boat or kayak. Lipped and non-lipped swimming plugs imitate bait fish and are great whipping and trolling lures.

Click here to read about modifying Kastmasters.

Click here to read about my favorite unscented lures of 2016.

Click here to read how well the Japanese Domestic Model (JDM) sub-surface lure has worked, right out of the gate.

Click here if you were wondering if JDM whipping lures were worth the higher price.

Click here to check out the Store to purchase JDM whipping lures, jigs and flies (if they aren’t sold out).

When is the best time to fish?

March 31, 2014 By Scott 4 Comments

Please also see When is the best time to fish – 2018 Update for additional tips on how to optimize your next fishing trip.

Fisherpeople, especially those with limited recreation time, often want to know what conditions determine the optimum time to fish. While conditions vary based on the location and particular day, there are some basic, accepted rules:

Low Light

Predator fish can sneak up on prey better when the water isn’t clear. Overcast or choppy, murky conditions are ideal times to fish.

Time of Day

Diurnal (awake during the day) fish are hungry after fasting the night and look for breakfast in the morning.
Diurnal fish try to eat before retiring for the evening.

Moon Phase

For daytime fishing, in general, the smaller the previous night’s moon phase, the better the bite.
- Predators can feed better on brighter moon phases at night and will be less hungry during the day.
- Prey will be chased around on brighter moon phases at night and be resting during the day.
For nighttime fishing, in general, the larger the previous night’s moon phase, the more activity there will be.
- Predators will be hunting.
- Prey will be running away.
- Torching visibility will be brighter but there will be fewer creatures sleeping.

Tides

Fish bite best when the tidal currents are stirring up food sources. The greater the difference between the low and high tide, the stronger the tidal current.
Days close to the full and new moon have the greatest difference between the high and low tide.
Fish bite best after the bottom of the low tide as the new water floods the reef. Second best tidal period to fish is after the peak high tide, as water rushes out of the reef. Fishing is generally slower as the low tide bottoms out and the high tide tops out.
Daylight fishing the strong tides near a new moon are better than fishing the strong tides of a full moon because the fish didn’t feed by moonlight the night before.
Fish have less places to feed on a low, rising tide than on a high tide, so it’s easier to guess where they are.

tides for April 1, 2014

Tides4fishing.com does a really nice job explaining the best times of each day and best days of the month to fish. In the above graph, the fish symbol denote the optimum periods based on tidal movement, to fish on April 1st, 2014. Here’s the link to the actual web page this graph was snipped from. Select the day and month on the right hand side of that page.

Stormy Weather

Fish can feel storms coming because the barometric pressure change can be felt underwater. Since they plan to lay low in deeper water during storms, they may eat before the storm comes and eat after the storm passes. Usually fishing around periods of stormy weather isn’t good, for the catching and for your comfort.

So what’s the takeaway from all of this? If you’re able to pick your opportunities to fish, pick periods of large tidal movement during low light conditions, coinciding with early morning or late afternoon, and not during stormy periods.

Diamond Head to Waikiki Fisheries Management Area fish report #3

March 20, 2014 By Scott Leave a Comment

not some remote atoll

Went back to the Diamond Head – Waikiki FMA area for round 3. The tide was dropping below zero feet and the wind initially was manageable when this picture was taken. The contrast of the reef and sand bottom was breathtaking. But the fish didn’t want to bite and the wind made it hard to cast long leaders attached to floats without snagging something on the way out.

It was a “bolo-head” (white wash, nada, zilch, goose eggs) day but I got a chance to chat with Kawika whom I met last week at this spot, and later with Brandon (I think) back at the car. Both generously shared fishing tips even though I warned them that I blog about my fishing experiences! So while I didn’t return home with dinner, I gained something much more valuable.

I’ll give their information a try and report back with the results. Here’s a preview: Kawika tied his own flies to whip explosively behind a large cast-a-bubble. Brandon liked using live bait (‘opae, “sand turtles” (mole crabs) and oama) and turned me on to some “guarantee oio spots” I could board fish in Waikiki.

The Aloha Spirit is still alive with the Oahu fishermen. Just gotta respect their spots and practice Aloha in return.

“Ho brah, how you keep your car so clean?”

March 16, 2014 By Scott Leave a Comment

That’s what you want to hear when your friends see you unpacking your fishing gear. Not “wow brah, your car so pilau”.

After you trudged around the steenkest waters on this island, with your functional yet uncool shoulder tackle bag and tabis, you’ll want to whip them off as quick as possible and leave the scene. How do you do that without ruining your car forever? Get a large plastic tub to throw your gear in, and carry a large water jug to rinse off in. Keeps the steenk self-contained and off your car.

Side note about the 5 gallon gasoline jug I use: It’s the largest container I could easily find but I have gotten jabs while rinsing myself off like “what brah, you need one light?”.

tub and water jug

“Tah-bees”, do I really need them?

March 16, 2014 By Scott 1 Comment

tabis

The Japanese tabis, pronounced “tah-bees”, are about the dorkiest footwear you could wear and most beginner fisherpeople try to avoid wearing them as long as they can. But if you have to walk on slippery wet rocks, or sharp reef, nothing is more protective and sure footed. Tabis have thick rubber protection around the toe area to prevent stubbing, and have a felt bottom to provide grip on slippery surfaces that rubber can’t provide. Yeah old sneakers, surf booties and even reef walkers look cooler, but eventually you’ll slip and fall, or get poked through to your less-than-luau feet.

tackle bag

And if you’re wading and fishing, do yourself a favor and get some kind of over-one-shoulder tackle bag to keep your gear out of the water. I know, the bag looks like a lady’s purse so it’s not gonna help your fashion cause, especially if you’re wearing tabis, but it will be handier to access than a backpack and will be worn higher than a fanny pack. Attach pliers and a line snipper on a retractable spring and you won’t have to worry about dropping your tools in the drink.

If you’re gonna spend a lot of time in the water and sun, you’d be wise to accessorize with a hat and polarized sun glasses. I’ll leave the style details up to you.

Waikiki Aquarium and Marine Life Conservation District

March 7, 2014 By Scott 2 Comments

Waikiki Aquarium

If you like looking at fish, the Waikiki Aquarium is a nice, small to medium sized Aquarium with a good sampling of Hawaiian and near Pacific sea life. Adults pay $12 to enter, and there are various Military, Senior and Kama’aina discounts.

broodstock moi (Pacific threadfin)

As a Kama’aina (local with proof of residence) I paid $8 and it was well worth it. I was able to study the fish I’m trying to catch, learn how coral reefs are built by nature and assisted by man, and see some huge broodstock moi (Pacific threadfin).

malu (double bar goatfish)

My favorite type of Hawaiian fish are the chubby goatfish. The aquarium had 3, but in separate tanks.

moana (manybar goatfish)

goatfish from NW HI islands

There’s a tide pool exhibit on the outside of the indoor Aquarium packed with the near shore fish like humus, aholehole, mullet, butterfly fish, kala, enenue, etc. It was interesting to see that most of the carnivores frequented the shallow reef ledge where the wave action washed through. So that supported a fishing adage I had heard before: fish like to feed in the shallows, very close to shore, so no need cast too far.

Waikiki Marine Life Conservation District

After viewing the captive fish I left the Aquarium and walked to the beach behind it. That area is a permanent Marine Life Conservation District. Here’s a shot of the area looking west, behind the Aquarium. If you get a chance to walk out on the rock wall perpendicular to the coast line, look closely on the calm, west side and you may see aha (stickfish), papio (jack crevalle) and oio (bonefish). Pretty cool to see wild, free fish cruising around after seeing the Aquarium inhabitants. Don’t try to catch them though, they are permanently protected and the fine is pretty steep!

What can you do when the fish don’t want to bite?

February 23, 2014 By Scott Leave a Comment

Some days the fish bite on every cast. Other days you seem to be casting into a vast wasteland. What can you do when the fish aren’t cooperating?

Change your bait/lure
Drop down to lighter line
Move around to more fishy locations; conditions may have moved the fish out of the spot you normally catch them
If possible, put on a mask and snorkel and see what’s going on underwater
Salvage the day by catching the less glamorous fish like triggerfish, palani, po’opaa (rockfish), hinalea, mamo, kupipi, etc

Catching ‘opae for bait

February 23, 2014 By Scott 2 Comments

Small and large ‘opae

The small, translucent Hawaiian shrimp called ‘opae is one of the best baits for near shore fish. Years ago the larger shrimp referred to as ‘opae lolo could be readily caught but now it’s hard just to find an inch long regular ‘opae. ‘Opae are found where fresh water meets salt water, often in some slow moving brackish water. Two well known, kinda yucky spots are the Ala Moana Beach Park lagoon and the Ala Wai canal. Click here to read about catching the coveted `opae lolo.

There are other more closely guarded spots on Oahu that have some ‘opae. Look for them against rock walls with brackish water algae growing. They seem to spread out during the day and cluster on rock walls and piers at night. Shine a light and look for a pair of eerie red eyes shining back.

Scoop up a bunch of them and keep them alive in a bucket with some aeration. When you’re ready to use them, carefully thread one on a hook and fish with a floater. Be ready to set the hook when your floater goes under, just about every carnivorous creature on the reef will want a taste of that offering.

There are even some salt water pet stores that sell `opae as live food for marine fish. Those `opae are fairly small but may be great for the smaller reef fish you want to hook. I recently saw a store selling them at 6 for $1.

Fishing Weather Resources

February 16, 2014 By Scott 1 Comment

(This was written in 2014. I need to update this!)

Isn’t it a bummer to clear the day to finally get out and fish only to get skunked, blown out by wind and surf, or stormed on?

These are the online resources I use to look ahead to determine weather and tide conditions.

Tides4Fishing.com – I recently discovered this very comprehensive website with indicators covering tidal movement, barometric pressure, wind speed, temperature, humidity and more. You can look ahead and see what days have the best tidal movements to fish, and see a very detailed breakdown of exactly when the best tidal movement occurs each day. I haven’t come across another site or app that captures all this info in one place. It’s like the Hawaiian Lunar Calendar on steroids.

iWindsurf.com – The normal 15 – 20 mph trade winds make it a little hard to fish the south and east shores of Oahu so I check the forecast days ahead of time to plan my next outing. iWindsurf constantly updates their forecast to be extremely accurate, down to one hour changes. Amaze your friends by predicting a significant drop in wind speed. Phone app also exists.

Surfline.com – Large surf can ruin your day whether you’re on the water or on the beach. A premium subscription allows you to see forecasts 5 days in advance. Phone app also exists.

Wunderground.com – The simple interface allows me to see hourly and daily forecasts. I love the radar map showing me the rain that’s gonna hit in the next hour or so.